You’re tuning in for part one of this two-part special on Navy boot camp. I am joined by fellow Military.com reporter Konstantin Toropin. He’s also a Navy veteran who went through boot camp here at Naval Station Great Lakes 15 years ago. Over two days, we were given exclusive access by the Navy to get an inside look at how it makes sailors. And after a number of changes were made to the program in the last several years, we came to find out what’s so different – and is it still hard, or has the Navy gone soft, as some veterans insist?
And is that even the right question?
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Transcript:
SPEAKERS
Konstantin Toropin, Announcement, Recruits, BM2 Lindsey Liles, LT Arturo Melendez, Diana Foster, FSCP Officer, Chaplain, RDC, Drew F. Lawrence, Chief Petty Officer David Bevels, RDC Student, Captain of Trayer, Recruit
Drew F. Lawrence
This episode contains strong language. Listener discretion is advised. It’s after 2 a.m. and the Navy recruits are tired. They’re on a 210 foot-long replica of the USS Trayer, a destroyer. The air is hot, sweaty, salty and chlorinated. About 40 recruits are packed into a compartment of the ship. Bright fluorescent bulbs light the rows of tan wall lockers and dark blue hats the sailor-hopefuls wear reading RECRUIT. The brims help hide long blinks and bags under bloodshot eyes. A couple sneak yawns and stretch sore legs as they shift uncomfortably on their feet, having been crouching for hours at this point on what the Navy calls a “strong knee.” They’ve been up since the early morning…the day before.
RDC
Take a strong knee, take a strong knee. That means shut the fuck up also. Y’all good? You tired?
Recruits
No petty officer!
RDC
That’s a lie, bullshit. Look at his eyes, he’s tired as fuck.
Drew F. Lawrence
That’s one of the facilitators. He’s also a Recruit Division Commander, or RDC. They oversee the training of the Navy recruits. You’ll hear a lot from them this episode.
RDC
You got any questions, about anything?
Recruits
When do we eat?
RDC
Whenever the fuck I tell you. That’s when you eat.
Drew F. Lawrence
Right now, he’s trying to wake the sleepy recruits up, keep them engaged so they don’t succumb to those long weary blinks.
RDC
Pushes? What if I’m not an RDC.
Recruit
We can tell.
RDC
I did six pushes. Six pushes straight. Normally you do 3-4 in the front, but I did six. Shit’s too easy man.
Drew F. Lawrence
Pushes is slang for the number of divisions an RDC has trained and his response clearly garnered respect from the recruits. What he’s doing right now is a bit of an artform when it comes to military instruction. Flexing some cred, keeping them awake. It’s a carefully constructed persona, both approachable and intense. Some of the previously shuttering eyes are now wide-open. And he’s not yelling – not yet, at least. This division of recruits is at the end of their 10-week boot camp at something called Battle Stations – a capstone event that tests the basic sailor skills the recruits have learned during their time at the Recruit Training Command in Great Lakes, Illinois. This group is apparently in the running for something called the Hall of Fame, an honor bestowed on high-performing divisions when they graduate. And if they get any strikes – infractions tonight – it could jeopardize their chances of that honor.
RDC
Y’all talking about these scores, this Hall of Fame shit. Is that what y’all are thinking about tonight, kind of?
Recruits
Yes, petty officer!
RDC
I’m going to shut you the fuck down about that. It’s cool to think about the Hall of Fame and the scores, right? But let me tell you this: you’re thinking about strikes, you thinking about all that crap? But if you don’t pass tonight and you don’t do what the fuck you’re supposed to do and you don’t develop yourself and you don’t become sailors, then what the fuck does it matter? You did not become a sailor. Everyone understand that, right?
Recruits
Yes, petty officer!
RDC
Your mindset is wrong. You came here for a mission…The mission for me, and I’m going to be blunt and talk to you in a different way, is to make you motherfuckers sailors, develop you so that you are a sailor, not a recruit…motherfuckers, you’re here to become sailors, you’re here to do battle stations, you’re here to do all this shit, you’re here to change your fucking ways of the recruit, to being sailors. Y’all gotta stop this.
Drew F. Lawrence
Now the stakes the real stakes are set and it’s just in time because the talking and standing still is about to abruptly end
Announcement
AWAY THE SNOOPIE TEAM, AWAY THE SNOOPIE TEAM. STARBOARD SIDE.
RDC
Y’all heard that right? SNOOPIE team?
Drew F. Lawrence
That stands for Ship’s Nautical or Otherwise Photographic Interpretation and Exploitation. As the facilitator said, all the “smart side” of the rates or jobs – photographers, intelligence, etc. – on the ship are being sent to do something.
RDC
Raise your hand. What do you think’s going on?
Recruit
Something’s been detected in the area.
RDC
Something’s detected in the area. So we call this team of certain individuals, certain rates to go check it out. What do you think is good or bad?
Recruits
Bad!
Drew F. Lawrence
In this case it is bad. Very bad. The ship’s engine starts whining.
RDC
Slowing down picking up speed what are we doing here?
Recruits
Picking up speed.
Captain of Trayer
Onboard Trayer. This is the captain. We are investigating an unidentified ship
RDC
So you just heard SNOOPIE team away. One top of that its late as fuck. Who was that you just heard?
Recruits
The captain!
RDC
The captain is now talking. He’s up. You think that motherfucker wants to be awake at this time? Guarantee you the captain isn’t going to be up for no reason. Captain’s got to sleep too, but now the captain’s up.
Announcement
10,000 yards away from suspicious ship!
RDC
Are we going away or are we getting closer?
Recruits
Closer!
Drew F. Lawrence
The air in the compartment has shifted. The recruits are locked in to the instructor. Their minds are churning – something is about to happen. He reminds them about their battle dress – what to wear in the event of damage to the ship, and they already seem to know what to grab: flash gear to protect from fire, helmets, tuck your blouse into your pants, button your top up. Another announcement blares and the instructor lowers his head – game time.
Announcement
General quarters, general quarters! All hands brace for shock.
RDC
Brace for shock!
Drew F. Lawrence
The fluorescent lights flash to black and then red and flicker. I couldn’t tell if the ship actually shook, but it might as well have – everyone in the room was locked against the side of the compartment, bracing against the walls.
RDC
Holy shit! We just got hit by a fucking missile and DCA just told us to save the ammunition! Hooya, save the ammunition!
Recruits
HOOYA SAVE THE AMMUNITION!
Drew F. Lawrence
Somewhere in the ship there’s a flood. It’s in the ammunition compartment. And the recruits have to go move it from the flooding compartment to a dry compartment – 120 rounds worth of what the facilitator estimated to be 30 or 40 pounds each. They rush out of the compartment donningin their protective gear. One recruit, a tall one, smacks his head on the compartment door on the way out. They rush to the hallway outside of the flooding compartment and put on wet boots. The facilitators are in full form and the ship itself is screaming and wailing.
RDC
Hurry up, hurry up!
Drew F. Lawrence
In the compartment, water is pouring from pipes fastened to the walls. The recruits have to plug the flood, but the water keeps rising, splashing on their uniforms. They create a carry team, picking up the ammunition and squatting to pass it to the next recruits. They lock the ammunition into the dry compartment into stands that touch the ceiling. It’s hard to decipher who’s yelling at this point. Occasionally the lights flicker dark. The recruits yell… The water is rising, flooding around their feet, their ankles, threatening to pour into their boots. It rises and rises and rises. And the clock keeps ticking.
Recruits
Freeze! Freeze!
Drew F. Lawrence
For Military.com, my name is Drew Lawrence. You’re tuning in for part one of this two-part special on Navy boot camp. I am joined by fellow Military.com reporter Konstantin Toropin. He’s also a Navy veteran who went through boot camp here at Naval Station Great Lakes 15 years ago. Over two days, we were given exclusive access by the Navy to get an inside look at how they make sailors. And after a number of changes were made to the program in the last several years, we came to find out what’s so different – and is it still hard, or has the Navy gone soft as some veterans insist? It is June 28th – and this is Fire Watch. Konstantin and I are in our rental car outside of an Armed Force Bank near the gate entering Recruit Training Command Great Lakes. It’s raining, 8:30 in the evening and about thirty minutes before we witness the first of many rites of passage that these recruits will embark on. We’re working out what we expect to see while we’re here and going through what Konstantin remembers from 15 years ago.
Konstantin Toropin
Well, you you get off the plane. And I know, I think for me I was traveling alone or maybe one other person with me. But you know, they all across the country of these Military Entrance Processing stations, MEPS stations, you know, they gather up recruits for all the branches and send them off and sort of waves and I remember, yeah, I they give you a manila folder filled with your paperwork and they put the fear of God into you about you know, losing that. And they’re like, alright, go get on this plane. And when you get there, go, you know, you’re gonna go to O’hare and find the USO and somebody will tell you what to do. And yeah, I you know, found the USO and I remember, you know, this young young petty officer must have been a third class, you know, probably not much older than myself, who told me, and was like, okay, you know, things are things are gonna be tough for you for the next few weeks. The one piece of advice I’m gonna give you is, if you see black pants, say, petty officer, if you see gold pants, say, chief, and I didn’t realize how valuable that piece of advice was. Basically, they just say, okay, you know, like, go sit on the floor out there, and a bus is gonna come collect you eventually. And then the bus ends up, you know, pulling in to the gate that we’re right next to right now.
Drew F. Lawrence
What were you feeling when you pull up to that gate?
Konstantin Toropin
You know, it’s it’s funny. I, I tried to remember. And I mean, I think I think I was slightly nervous. But I had no idea what I was in for. You know, I think I probably should have been more nervous than I was. And I should have been more apprehensive than I was. But I remember being on that bus and not being able to really see. It was dark. It was, you know, certainly the sun had said, I think it was sort of around nine or 10 o’clock, and I’m pretty sure they do that on purpose. And I remember not seeing a whole lot of anything. And suddenly we were there. And then there was a lot of yelling.
Drew F. Lawrence
Yeah, I mean, like, because you get off the bus and then it’s like that cold splash water. What was that cold splash water for you. What was that ‘Oh, shit moment?”
Konstantin Toropin
I think for me, it wasn’t even…because, yeah, you get off the bus and you’re yelled at, you’re screamed and it’s nerve wracking. But in those initial moments, at least for me, it felt it didn’t feel real. It felt like okay, yeah this will this will go away. Eventually, I’ll shut my eyes and wake up and it’ll be fine. And to your point, I think the oh shit moment was I had gone through, you know, all of the rigors of arrival. And I had a sea bag at that point. I think I must have because that’s what I fell asleep on.
Drew F. Lawrence
It’s like a duffel.
Konstantin Toropin
Yeah, this giant green duffel full of you know, at the moment, just basic issue. And I you know, we were all sitting cross legged with this thing in front of us. And I had fallen asleep on it. And I woke up, and I was still there. And I think that was that for me was when the panic sort of started to set and where it’s like, oh, God, I woke up and I’m still here. Yeah. And the screaming didn’t stop.
Drew F. Lawrence
There’s also that moment where your previous identity before you got through those gates starts to slip away, and is replaced by this thing that they’re yelling into you? Did you realize that at the time? Or was it a reflection thing?
Konstantin Toropin
It was a reflection thing for sure. It’s what it says on the tin, the Navy says like, we’re gonna send you to boot camp to make you a sailor, we’re going to change you into something else. But you know, you sort of resist right? Intellectually you tell yourself. I mean, this is for somebody else, like somebody else is gonna get changed. I’m not. Honestly, to a certain extent, I found myself realizing how different I had become years after I’d gotten out. It wasn’t until I was back out into the civilian world where I realized that like, holy crap, they, they really rewired you a little bit.
Drew F. Lawrence
We actually pulled up the Navy boot camp website to see what they say recruits should expect.
Konstantin Toropin
You know, this is the front the front page advertising, right? Once you’re here, you’ll learn all the skills you need to transform from a civilian to a sailor. Okay. Well, that sounds perfectly nice. The first two weeks of training are the most challenging because you’ll be shifting your perspective from civilian to sailor and training for several hours each day. That’s a very nice way to say completely out of your element and being yelled at, you know, on the regular. On your first night…Ah, here we go. On your first night you will be able to make a phone call to your family or guardians. Oh, is that Artie?
Drew F. Lawrence
Is that Artie?
LT Arturo Melendez
No, no worries. We’ll meet when we get over there. So don’t worry. We’re just gonna pop a U turn at this gate.
Drew F. Lawrence
That’s LT Arturo Melendez, he’s our media handler for the trip. You’ll hear him throughout the episode. He greets us and waves us to follow him through the gates. As an Army veteran, I never experienced this. And, while I didn’t admit it to Konstantin, got that foreboding sense as we approached the gate.
Konstantin Toropin
Quarterdeck of the Navy.
Drew F. Lawrence
So your bus came through here? The route was the same the recruits would be taking long dark through it felt like narrow roads and past ambiguous brick structures and a parking lot we The route was the same the recruits would be taking. Long, dark through what felt like narrow roads and passed ambiguously dark brick structures. At a parking lot, we greeted some other Navy media types and went into this building with a long hall, Navy flags adorning the sides and some printed on the linoleum floor. I learned you’re not supposed to step on those. Konstantin was excited, or something like that. This is the hallway.
Konstantin Toropin
The hallway is the hallway, man.
Drew F. Lawrence
You’re sweating right now.
LT Arturo Melendez
Well, they did change this room…
Konstantin Toropin
This all looks largely unchanged.
Drew F. Lawrence
Almost immediately, Konstantin saw someone he knew. Chief Petty Officer David Bevels; they both served on the USS Lake Champlain. He’s now an RDC.
Konstantin Toropin
[Banter]
Drew F. Lawrence
For many recruits, this hallway will deliver their first cold splash of water. And we were about to witness that as a bus rolled up. Dozens of recruits fled the bus. I’d learn later that some of them had already been crying on the ride over – for some the water comes earlier. But they rushed into the hallway that Konstantin and I just had a tour of. And began the instruction. Specifically, from Bevels, Konstantin’s old shipmate.
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Alright at this time, everyone will take out their cell phones, hold them in their right hands, and power them on…hold them in front of you, not over your head. We don’t have all night, we have a lot of people coming here. You will have two minutes to contact a family member and tell them three things: you arrived to boot camp safely, second thing in approximately two week’s time, they will receive information in the mail, the last thing you tell them is that in approximately three weeks in time they will receive a phone call from you telling them your status in boot camp.
Drew F. Lawrence
The instruction is simple, but in the environment, it appears to be calculus. Most recruits are looking forward – a blank, but eager or apprehensive slate – but some eyes are shifting back and forth nervously. Most were young, but there were some older folks in the mix. Men, women from all backgrounds. It was a diverse crowd. These cell phones, and their presence at boot camp, will be a big point later.
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Alright, two minutes – let’s go.
Drew F. Lawrence
Some recruits didn’t get the message from Bevels.
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Is there anybody that you can call to tell them that you got here safely? Again, we don’t have all night. Just answer the question yes or no. Was there anybody that you can call? Okay, hurry up and call them we have to move forward. Let’s go fall back in or even make a phone call. Everybody else…
Drew F. Lawrence
From here, the recruits enter a dizzying, but closely controlled labyrinth of tasks. Drug tests, equipment and clothing issue, inspections, initial instruction on rank structure and who’s in charge at the RTC. Artie would chime in occasionally with some information as we watched the procession.
LT Arturo Melendez
It’s funny like the hair dye up there. It’s because if female recruits come in with crazy color hair, they actually buy with their cash card and they have to dye their hair back to standard.
Drew F. Lawrence
At one point they stow away personal items in large cardboard boxes. I learned they used to ship those home, but now they keep them in storage to get back once they’ve finished bootcamp – or drop out. They get to keep things like sunblock, contacts and solution, and
RDC
One religious text, emphasis on the one!
Drew F. Lawrence
To my surprise, none of the recruits we talked to brought anything super personal. Maybe some letters from family, but largely the boxes were filled with civilian clothes and shoes – which were replaced with Navy blue uniforms. Just a quick question for the group. What were some of the personal effects that you guys put in the box?
Recruit
I guess my clothes. Honestly, I really liked those clothes.
Drew F. Lawrence
Konstantin attributed that to their recruiters preparing them for the inevitable shedding of personal items, so many recruits might not have brought them in the first place. It was late. Some of the recruits were visibly tired. We talked to Chief Petty Officer Bevel, Konstantin’s old shipmate. For you now that you’re in the RDC position, what’s changed since since you came through?
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Oh a lot to be honest with you. So like I was saying the IT, the culture. Just the generation, there’s a drastic difference compared to when I first came in. There was a lot more yelling, a lot more cursing, it was a lot of that we couldn’t get away with nearly as much as a lot of these kids can now, because times change, like back when we first came in, we still had the 9/11 crowd at that time. That’s totally gone by the wayside now, because we were fit we’re dealing with more political the more global issues, if you will, that kind of like, really outdate 911. So that’s that’s that.
Drew F. Lawrence
Whatare you noticing about, like the recruits that come in?
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
I was saying out there as the social skills, a lot of them don’t have it. And a lot of them are a lot of them coming in now. And like we’re not even getting a bunch of 18 year olds, a lot of them coming in. Now they’re in their mid to late 20s 30s, even 40s coming in. A lot of them are having issues with like just actual socializing and actually having a conversation. Some of them seem like they have the basic concept of it. But again, like when you’re on your phone all day, or you looking at screens all day: it’s a challenge. It really is.
Drew F. Lawrence
When you talk about the the yelling part, right reducing the yelling, what’s the purpose of that?
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
It’s pretty much it’s attrition, you’ll hear that a lot while you’re here.
Drew F. Lawrence
And how you feel about that?
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Um, I don’t necessarily agree with it. It’s kind of like me slightly disagreeing to indifference, if you will. Because again, like it’s kind of a juxtaposition, if you will, when we’re talking about okay, prepare for war because of North Korea, because China because of Russia, because of Ukraine, because of Israel because of Palestine. But yet, we can’t, like how are we? How can we can we do that, but yet, we have to be gentle, or we have to be we have to ease back on because it’s going to be totally different out there in the fleet. So that kind of puts us to kind of again, a juxtaposition, if you will.
Konstantin Toropin
My only question is: do you like, have you seen more recruits wanting to drop out? Leave? Quit?
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Yes, actually. Yes, I’ve actually had several of those in every division that I’ve had myself and other divisions that I’ve seen because of the shock and awe because again, you get it and this, this is everybody that’s joining the military, okay, you’re away from home, you’re not used to being away from your parents. It’s a totally different environment, you have a lot of people that haven’t even left the state that that they grew up in before they came here. So they come here and they got everybody yelling at them, people talking to them all crazy. They’re not used to that. And the mentality is totally different now compared to back then, a lot of these kids are built totally different than it was back then. Their resilience is totally different now compared to back then. Just like when we were young, it was the same for us, like older people that were 20 plus years older than us would say the same thing. Oh, yeah, it was harder when we were coming in. So it’s an endless cycle.
Drew F. Lawrence
What do you see recruits like dropping out for? What’s the big reason?
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Um, I think well, some of them. I’ve had a couple of them tell me they wish they went to college. I’ve had a couple of them tell me that they could go back to their old jobs because they don’t want to do this. That’s pretty much it. And I’ve even asked them, Okay, well, then why did you join? Well, I wanted to make my parents proud. Or I had to get out the house or my parents told me to or my grandparents told me to, or even it was either that or I had to go to jail or juvenile hall or whatever the case may be. So there’s a myriad of those.
Drew F. Lawrence
BM2 Lindsey Liles, another RDC, had a bit of a different view.
BM2 Lindsey Liles
I went through, it would be October 2008. But it’s 2009. It’s a lot different. It’s good difference, then versus now, as we understand the shock and awe. However, you can get a point across without yelling, you can get a point across without doing a lot of things. And it’s not a bad thing. Sometimes it’s hard to embrace change, but sometimes change is necessary.
Drew F. Lawrence
And what are the effects of that, that change? What are some of the positive examples that have come out of you know, reducing the shock and awe.
BM2 Lindsey Liles
So the reducing the shock and awe is letting the recruits know that they can trust the people that are before them. When you have the shock and awe yeah, you can do the same thing. And it’s not a bad way. You know, it’s just as the generations change, you can still get respect the same way without having to yell at a person or do these things. Breaking down can still be done in a more positive way.
Drew F. Lawrence
We also talked to some of those recruits. We wanted to find out why they wanted to join the Navy. The ones we talked to were young, late teens, early 20s – from all over the country. Massachusetts, Louisiana, and Michigan to be specific. And their reasons for joining are pretty much the same as generations of hopeful sailors who’ve entered those halls. Why’d you want to join the Navy?
Recruit
Well, the short answer is to do something cool. I come from a military family. And I went to college and I was going through job interviews last summer and just wanted to do something bigger, kind of push myself.
Drew F. Lawrence
When you got off the bus, was there something that you didn’t expect to happen that you were kind of surprised by?
Recruit
Everything was expected. We got off the bus and they told us to move our feet. That was expected, move my feet.
Drew F. Lawrence
Why’d you want to join the Navy?
Recruit
I wanted to join the Navy for a better future, a better career. I have a two year old. I want to set him up to have a better life. To go to school. I want to become a nurse. I’m already halfway through school.
Drew F. Lawrence
You have a son? When he grows up, would you want him to join the military?
Recruit
If he wants to. I’m all for it. I didn’t it why not?
Drew F. Lawrence
What do you like about Constantine, Michigan?
Recruit
It’s just a small town. I like to nobody knows where it’s at. And I grew up with everyone. I went to school. I know everybody there and it’s better that way.
Drew F. Lawrence
You wrestle?
Recruit
Yessir.
Drew F. Lawrence
Why did you join the Navy?
Recruit
It’s always something I wanted to do. And I got out of high school and I worked a couple other jobs. And I was always kind of running from it. But Ill no longer run from it. I don’t want to be that old man on my deathbed going, what if? What if I could have done that? Just always something I wanted to do.
Drew F. Lawrence
We left the recruits to their initiation and headed back to our hotel. I had just taken in a lot of information, but didn’t know what to think. I wanted to pick Konstantin’s brain before we racked out for the evening. Alright, so we’re in the parking lot of our hotel. Just turned midnight. So we spent a few hours at Navy boot camp. Initial thoughts?
Konstantin Toropin
In a lot of ways, it’s exactly as I remember it. The building, the sounds, the smells. Instantly transports you right back to my own time there. That smell of sneaker rubber and fresh PT clothes…But at the same time in some ways it was different. The biggest thing I noticed was it was a much quieter experience than I remember. There was far less yelling, less corrective actions. Just less of that. Not none, but what we saw was less aggressive and more snarky. But at the same time, we saw the first hours for the recruits. And there’s really no way to know…I think we need to see more. One of the things that stood out to me as being very much the same, was that several leaders commented that these recruits are going to stay up all night. That part I desperately remember. Yeah, as we were leaving a
Drew F. Lawrence
As we were leaving I noticed some weary eyes and head nods already starting.
Konstantin Toropin
One of the recruits as I was walking out they were moving some boxes and very politely said “sir do you have the time.” So already time has lost all meaning and they’ve started to lose track of what hour it is. And they had arrived just hours before. Day one down.
Drew F. Lawrence
Day one down. Here I should tell you that, almost in an unspoken way, Konstantin and I were formulating a thesis. We thought we saw the recruits for what they appeared to be – a new generation of civilians, molded by the good and bad of our current society, coming in to take up the mantle of the Navy mission. Something that Bevels said kept coming to mind:
Chief Petty Officer David Bevels
Just like when we were young, it was the same fuss, like older people that were 20 plus years older than us would say the same thing. Oh, yeah, it was harder when we were coming in. So it’s an endless cycle.
Drew F. Lawrence
At the beginning of the trip, when we were first getting our feet into the story, that thought latched on, and we examine the experience at Boot Camp through that generational lens. The last generation thinks the next generation isn’t up to the task. You’ll hear us pick up that idea again and again to the recruits, the instructors, families in the leadership, you’ll hear us say the quote unquote new generation coming in or ask what their quirks are, or talk about nostalgia At the beginning of the trip, when we were getting our feet into this story, that thought latched on. And we examined the experience at boot camp through that generational lens – the last generation thinks the next generation isn’t up to the task – and you’ll hear us pick at that idea again and again to the recruits, the instructors, families and the leadership. You’ll hear us say the “new generation coming in” or ask what they’re quirks are or talk about nostalgia. But does it make sense to ask those questions? As journalists, when we write about these topics and changes we get an influx of emails and from veterans who apparently don’t like them. Here’s one we pulled from the deck: “i am a retired navy veteran of 20 years 1974-1994….my concern these days are with the youngsters we are raising these days are just a bunch of wimps who are just spoiled children…Boot camp used to be tough now it is a joke.” So the pushback exists, and you’ll hear it here on the ground too. It was in the back of our minds – sometimes on the forefront, actually. But what does it really mean? What would these veterans think if they saw boot camp themselves, instead of reading about it? In the light of day, we already began to have doubts about the thesis. Do you think it felt quieter to you because you were not on the receiving end of the yelling, or do you objectively think there was less yelling.
Konstantin Toropin
Initially, I thought that — you know memory is such a funny thing, it’s always hard to truly and objectively know you were remembering something correctly. Initially I sort of wondered about that…shoot, do I just remember this wrong? Was it not as bad as it seemed? And it wasn’t until some of the RDCs we talked to said we were cutting down on the shock and awe. Maybe I am remembering this correctly. But my initial reaction was to doubt my memory.
Drew F. Lawrence
As we entered the gate for day 2, the full scale of RTC became much more clear. The base is locate–d on the east coast of Lake Michigan. At this time of year, the weather was temperate, a bit muggy. Our next stop is the Future Sailor Preparatory Course. It launched in 2023 and is modeled after an Army version of the program. Essentially, recruits wanting to come into the service who don’t meet the weight or academic requirements of the Navy, get more time on the front end of bootcamp to shed weight and get smarter. Here, according to the instructors we spoke to, they get 90 days max to improve. The program is in response to an American society that is seeing increased obesity rates and lower academic performance. And the Navy is – in its own part – trying to fix that. Here’s the officer in charge of the program, we didn’t catch her name.
FSCP Officer
Otherwise, before this program existed, if they would have gone and gotten measured and said, Oh, well, you’re over you’re not within the standards, they get sent home, well, you can you lose weight yourself or you’re not coming back. So now they’re given that opportunity to be in a program where they’re given that extra assistance as well.
Drew F. Lawrence
We enter a gym with bikes, free weights, and rowing machines.
FSCP Officer
We do a lot of low impact cardio…so that’s what it’s centered around and that’s to help minimize injury….you want to be careful about how we implement exercise.
Drew F. Lawrence
A group of over a dozen recruits in yellow shirts are milling around the gym before the workout starts. We talk to a few of them. And some were a bit older than the recruits we talked to last night.
Diana Foster
Diana Foster, D I A N A. F O S T E R. And I came out of Greenville, South Carolina.
Drew F. Lawrence
How long have you been in this program?
Diana Foster
This is my third week in the program. I did not know I was going to be in this program until I was here and then brought over. I knew that I had been accepted into the Navy. And I was excited to be here. And then you know, they put me with a regular division. And then they realized that I needed to be here. So I got brought over. It was a surprise. I’m not mad about it.
Drew F. Lawrence
Why is that?
Diana Foster
There are some people who join who want to do a tour and a period of time, call it good and then get out and move on. I’m very happy to stay, I’ll stay until they tell me to go home. So that’s 20 years, that’s 20 years.
Drew F. Lawrence
And do you think you know like a program like this would kind of set you up for that that longer road?
Diana Foster
Absolutely. I came in not having run in 18 years and I cannot do a push up. And since being here even in the short time. I can do push ups and I have been taught how to run. It was the RDCs who taught us that.
Drew F. Lawrence
Why’d you want to join the Navy
Diana Foster
I’m 42. Right now there is an employment crisis in the civilian world. I wanted an organization to work for that had longevity and had staying power. I chose this as a career option.
Drew F. Lawrence
One of the interesting things Foster said was that those assigned to the fitness part of the program, help the academic side study. And those assigned to the academic side, help the fitness candidates workout. Some of those candidates entered the room and began their exercise – stretching, low impact. We spoke to one of the FSPC instructors to get her thoughts. So there are people who may not be predisposed to the Navy lifestyle yet. And so there’s a program like this that can help get them there. Is that a fair assessment?
RDC
In a sense, this program is more designed for people who kind of fall short of the standard that we have to have in order to join the military. And our job is to help get them to that standard so that they can drop into training and then join the military once they finish boot camp from there.
Drew F. Lawrence
Why do you think a program like this is necessary? It opens…kind of broadens our horizons for people that were able to have join the military, right? Because for our fitness kids, a lot of them really want to be here. And just because maybe they don’t meet the basic weight standards, or weigh-ins that they’re supposed to have, this enables us to help them get to a point where they can achieve their dreams of being in the military. And then as far as the academics, maybe they don’t meet the criteria needed to have the score to get the jobs that they want. And we’re able to kind of put them through class and raise those scores so that they can join anyway and get a more technical job. One of the questions we’ve been asking a lot of the RDCs is how this experience now compared to your experience, when you went through boot camp, what are some of the big differences?
RDC
Um, I would say honestly, it’s completely different. I, I went through boot camp, my RDCs didn’t even know who I was, there was no, it was. It was very straight hardcore military like it was, you’re going to do what you’re told to do. You’re not going to ask questions. We weren’t the “Why” generation. It was very strict, structured, you get in you get out. Here, we’ve adapted to how the economy is now the people who come in. And so it’s very “Why” based. We explain to them why they’re doing certain things, how it’s going to benefit them later. I would say it’s, it’s not that we’ve lowered our standards, we’ve just adapted to the type of people that are in today’s generation coming in. I want to recognize that the access we’re getting at RTC is pretty extensive. And despite having a media handler, Artie – which is common in this type of coverage – we’ve seen some intimate and raw aspects of the training. But I should note there are some downsides to walking around a military base with a microphone. People tend to get uncomfortable, dare I say performative. And thus far, a lot of the recruits we’ve spoken to have been provided to us – though during our stay, we would drop in on many unannounced. At least 3 were on the special operations track, or SO which likely means they’re high performers. Some seemed to be straight out of Navy central casting, like these two gentlemen who we interviewed in one of the bunk compartments – one of whom was also on the SO track. Both were clearly physically strong and motivated.
Recruit
I think, as a citizen, one of the most important things we can do for our country to serve. So that was, I always knew I wanted to serve, I just wasn’t sure in what capacity. In my case, I I just graduated high school. So I didn’t really know what I was going to do with my life. I didn’t want to stay home. So I wanted to be able to provide for my future family and my family that I have now and also serve my country. You know, be proud of what I’m doing. And as well as just do something that’s bigger than myself be a part of something bigger than myself.
Drew F. Lawrence
But as the tour progressed, some of that guardedness went away. It’s a bit of an aside in that the sailors you’re about to hear from aren’t yet RDCs. But they soon will be and it gives you an idea of how those who train the recruits are trained themselves. They took the instructor path, are also trained at RTC and go through something called C-School. They’ll be RDCs at the end of the course.
RDC Student
I asked to do it. And the reason I asked to do it is everybody when they when they tell you about this place. They say this is what will help you promote, this is what will help you gain leadership skills. This is basically the best thing for your career. So when I was looking at all the options available, and it was either go overseas or become an RDC, the options are pretty easy for me to pick.
Drew F. Lawrence
What do they tell you to expect from recruits?
RDC Student
They don’t know anything. Expect for them to ask a lot of questions. Mess up a lot. You can explain to them 1000 times, they probably just don’t get it. They have zero military background. So even though we’re all from the fleet, been in for years, we just have to dumb it down. Like we have to understand that. They just don’t know anything about the military.
Drew F. Lawrence
Obviously there, there are rules for for instructors, like regardless of military branch of what you can and can’t do for, you know, corrective action, like things like that. What are, you know, what is the? What are you guys being taught about that?
RDC Student
I think this place gives you kind of a unique opportunity to diversify your way of training. Sometimes I think that boot camp gets a bad rap, regardless of military branch of just yelling and screaming and instructing by force. And that’s not always the case. In some cases, that is appropriate given the time and circumstances. But other times, we’re given tools, not only in C School, but I mean, we learn a lot of tools from the fleet on what works on what works differently for different sailors. So when you have recruits coming from all walks of life, one method might not be the correct method in order to get something across more efficiently. So that’s why we go through the schooling that we go to, to be able to get more of those tools in our toolbox to be able to reach kind of every walk of life and every potential sailor out there to find out what the best way to train them is. It really does help.
Drew F. Lawrence
Here, one of the students is going to reference something called Warrior Toughness. This is one of the other changes in bootcamp, but it’s a bit of an older policy – since 2018. According to the Navy, warrior toughness “is a holistic human performance skillset that enhances the toughness of our sailors with a focus on the pursuit of peak performance” emphasizing the “development of toughness in the mind, body, and soul.” At the time, I really wasn’t sure what that meant. I learned that it includes breathing exercises, reflection, visualization of a goal or task, and guidance from on-base psychologists. It’s intended to instill a sense of mental fortitude and resilience at boot camp, and the Navy at large.
RDC Student
It’s awkward, honestly, like, when I joined, they were introducing it. So my division was like the pilot division for it. But it does feel awkward at first because we’re so used to just focusing on like petty officer said like the physical fitness aspect of it, them training on like firefighting weapons line handling. So when it comes to warrior toughness and mental health, for a lot of the recruits, and for some of the RDCs, it does seem like a waste of time. But in the grand scheme of things, it shows like, a huge level of importance because graduation rates have come up, the ASMO rates like they’re lowered. So it definitely does improve the well being of not only the recruit, but many of the RDCs. Warrior toughness, to keep it a buck for you it is not for me. I don’t like doing it at all. But when I’m out there, and I see like when we’re doing it with the recruits, you can tell like, over over half of them, it’s hitting them and it works for them.
Drew F. Lawrence
We had something like that when I was in the Army. And to keep it a buck with you, it wasn’t for me either. I vaguely remembered learning watered down sports psychology and breathing exercises in the vein of “holistic human performance.” And to be honest, that kind of blinded me to it a bit here. Eventually, I got put in my place by a chaplain. So I want to ask you about warrior toughness. I kind of have this ambiguous idea of what it is. But in your own words, what is warrior toughness.
Chaplain
Warrior toughness is about maximizing performance. So no matter what situation we’re in, no matter where we are, no matter what’s going on, how can we take our performance to that next level. And that really starts with little things that we do each day. So warrior toughness at RTC teaches skills, techniques and tools to staff, recruits, everyone on how they can maximize their performance.
Drew F. Lawrence
Can you give me a practical example of that? I would love to.
Chaplain
So one of the most useful things that we do and one of the most commonly used ones is called recalibration, which is when you breathe in for a certain number of seconds, usually five and then out for a certain number of seconds, usually seven. It’s a way to calm down the nervous system. We have different parts of our brain that act as an alarm. And taking that deep breath calms the alarm down and lets our frontal cortex take over and allow us to make good decisions. And it’s something that we can do, no matter what’s going on around us because it doesn’t take all that much thought just a deep breath in with the emphasis on breathing out for a little bit longer. That’s the part that really calms our brain down.
Drew F. Lawrence
One of the things that we’ve kind of been exploring enter reporting is some of the new changes to recruit training that other generations maybe didn’t have, and warrior toughness. It’s been around for a couple of years, right? But you know, why is it important to have that for this generation of recruits that are coming into be sailors?
Chaplain
In your question, there’s almost this assumption that there’s something different about this generation of recruits that means they need it more. And I would disagree with that. I think every generation of recruits could have used this to maximize their performance and do better while they’re here. We just didn’t have the tools put together like this for prior generations.
Drew F. Lawrence
And what’s the benefit to that? What’s the bottom line benefit?
Chaplain
More people who pass and more people who pass better.
Drew F. Lawrence
At this point, you’re probably picking up a theme here. A lot of the changes we’ve covered have to do with limiting attrition. Across the branches, that’s always a concern. But in the last several years, there’s been a recruiting crisis. All of the services have struggled to make their recruit quotas, with only a couple – the Marine Corps and Space Force – consistently hitting the mark by small margins. That puts a lot of pressure on the boot camps to make sure the potential sailors they are getting stick with it. After we talked to the RDC students, Konstantin and I had a taste of the unguarded information we just hoovered up. And credit to Artie, he delivered more of that. Our next stop was the chow hall where recruits eat. On the way in, a recruit walked by Artie, who is an officer, and rendered a salute indoors. That’s a big no-no. And an RDC happened to be walking by. I don’t know if you caught that but an RDC pulled him aside and said ‘who the fuck taught you to salute inside? It was the first “corrective action” we had seen since we got there. Having been in the military, Konstantin and I know it exists and have experienced it, but you know…walking around base with a microphone has its downsides. We turned the corner before we learned the recruit’s fate, but it was confirmation to us that a lapse in standards was met with swift correction.
Konstantin Toropin
We can we can definitively say it still happens.
Drew F. Lawrence
The food recruits eat are marked green, yellow or red indicating their level of “healthiness,” green being better for you and red being worse. Today they’re eating chicken pesto pasta, corn on the cob, vegetables, sloppy joes, potato wedges, chicken and cheese enchiladas and the like. Can I grab a coffee? I want to see if it tastes like Army coffee. It did. Soon we sat down with some recruits who entered the chow hall in an organized fashion, filling in seats back to front. The first group we sat down with actually had their wisdom teeth removed recently and were – if I remember correctly – eating cottage cheese or something else equally mushy and amorphous.
Konstantin Toropin
She just got her wisdom teeth out.
Drew F. Lawrence
I hope your teeth feel better. The recruits we eventually sat down with are a few weeks into boot camp. After Konstantin and the recruits traded some boot camp horror stories, we got to the heart of things. So far, we’ve been soliciting feedback about this generational saga. And we realized, well – let’s hear what the recruits think about it.
Recruit
I grew up in Alabama. But then I lived in Charleston, South Carolina for about seven years. And then after that I went to USC, out of South Carolina as a computer science major. I was running along funds. So then I decided to join the Navy over here.
Drew F. Lawrence
This is recruit Martinez. He’s in a leadership position in his division.
Recruit
I am the one who leads cadences. If we’re doing PT, we all need to be a step. I sing cadences if we’re holding planks. People say the days are long, but the weeks are short. Because it feels like when you’re standing there two hours goes by fast. But at the same time when you start two hours goes by super slow. But whenever I look back on it, three weeks went by so fast, but I still feel like I still have long to go. It’s constantly like we’re always just starting. That’s what it feels like constantly. The hardest part is truly simply put civilian to military. Like of course you can mentally prepare and do your research. But until you’re actually put on the hot seat to transition to always being on the spot, always being under a high stress environment. And always being a sailor essentially, it’s super difficult. Because you go from days where you get to choose everything, to where everything is chosen for you. And everything is chosen for you down to the underwear you wear. It’s jarring at first. But the hardest thing is committing to the experience. Because your civilian wants to fight back. But at the end of the day, you have to remember: I’m one cog in the machine. And it’s so hard being the cog.
Drew F. Lawrence
Maybe this isn’t the right word, but it sounds a little like doubt or rebellion or however you want to put it would you tell me but like how do you get over that?
Recruit
Getting over that instinct to fight back is truly: one your RDCs will handle it for you. They will humble you 100% if you can humble yourself but truly it’s up to your self awareness. Like, this is not me talking. This is not the sailor Martinez copy. This is not seaman recruit Martinez talking. This is my ego. This is my ego telling me no, I know how to do it better. No, I want to do this, instead of just being like, I have orders I need to follow. If I follow everything to a tee, there will be nothing wrong. And they preach that and it’s true. It’s true.
Drew F. Lawrence
You know, when you talk about RDCs humbling you like what’s, you know, give me an example.
Recruit
I mean, it can range from a number of things, I feel like most people have experienced the beatings already. And we say beatings its not physically people putting hands on you. Because if that happens, you can report that and I highly advise you to report that. But getting beat is essentially doing intensive training, which is high physical activity, they can have you do any, any amount of push ups, they want anything they see, to make sure you know, what you’ve done is wrong. And I feel like it’s obviously like a very thought out process and system to make sure that sailors or to-be sailors know what and what not to do and to know their place, especially in ranking. Because even in our sailors creed is to always obey the orders of those appointed over me. And if you don’t, that’s when there’s consequence, because I feel like they’re translating that to you not foldiing your shirts right now is equivalent to you not doing your job right later. Which equates to lives at the end of the day. And what we aren’t joking about in bootcamp is lives because we are putting the country’s lives in the sailors hands, regardless of who you are, where you’re from, how old you are and what’s the rate.
Drew F. Lawrence
Has anyone been smoked? Received the corrective training? Yeah, you? What was that like?
Recruit
I left my knit bag in my rack with dirty clothes in it and I got IT’d.
Drew F. Lawrence
What what happened? And what was going through your mind?
Recruit
I got 10 eight counts. I got this fifteen 8 counts. And some girls in my compartment actually joined in with me.
Drew F. Lawrence
When your fellow recruits joined you like, how do you feel?
Recruit
It made me feel a lot better. And that motivated me a lot more to get them done. Because 15 push ups for me and a lot.
Drew F. Lawrence
You know, crusty old veterans like Konstantin will look back on, you know, maybe your generation and be like, Oh, it’s harder for me, like I went through something different. And it’s, you know, I don’t like it, blah, blah, blah, there’s that there’s that mindset out there? You know, from your perspective, what would you what would you what would you tell someone who has that mindset where it’s like, you know, it was tougher for me and the new generation soft and …
Konstantin Toropin
Y’all are getting it off easy…
Drew F. Lawrence
What would you say to that?
Recruit
I genuinely think that they had it tougher, I’m not even gonna lie. Because the one of our petty officers was like, they got a hit for having like a fingerprint on one of the pipes on the toilet. And like we’re having a hard time just like rolling up the curtains tight and tying them around the exact same way across the stalls. I think in that sense, it’s definitely a lot more intense. And across the branches there’s extreme sides of it. But I mean as much as we have to adapt as recruits, I think the system also has to adapt to the type of recruits that are coming in. So what’s equivalently hard to us might not be hard to them. But the mentality is that a lot of these recruits are coming in as makes it hard for them.
Drew F. Lawrence
Your dad was in the Navy?
Recruit
He currently is.
Konstantin Toropin
Do you think? Do you think when you graduate, he’s gonna accept you as a sailor?
Recruit
I think so. He’s actually deployed in Italy right now. So you won’t be at my graduation. But I think he’ll definitely be proud and accept me hopefully.
Drew F. Lawrence
Does that change you as the product, you as the sailor, does that change the outcome?
Recruit
I wouldn’t say though, I mean, we’re still all going through the same evolution. And challenging for us, and they were challenging for them. So I wouldn’t say that it makes us less of a sailor than they are. Because at the end of the day, we’re all going to be standing side by side on the ship someday. I agree. I don’t think it makes us any less than, but I think the same thing applies as the world adapts and the world changes. We need different sailors to come to the task, because the tasks we were facing 10 years ago, is nothing like a task we’re facing now. Which creates new rates, new people, new jobs, new requirements. And now new training. We uphold and try to come to par. But is it in the same way? No. But I still think that we are just as good.
Drew F. Lawrence
Konstantin and I had come to Navy basic training with the combination of nostalgia and foreboding from our own memories of military training, as well as an acute sense of the constant measuring of generations of service members against their predecessors. We asked pretty much everyone we talked to about it. But after talking to the recruits, we began to doubt that generational mindset. It exists and it has for a long time. But it’s murky, subjective and frankly – a poor measure of the success of the times, we learned. It misses the point. In the next episode you’re going to hear from more recruits, RDCs and also family members. We keep that generational framework in mind but through a different lens – What does life look like for recruits after basic training, and how do their families view their transformations? What do the changes in basic really mean about today’s Navy? Plus, this:
Konstantin Toropin
It’s 1:30 on Wednesday, when did you last go to sleep?
Recruit
I woke up at 5:15 on…honestly, I don’t remember, I remember I woke up at 5:15 and that’s about it.
Konstantin Toropin
If you were — in this state — had to operate that payphone that was back there, would you be able to do it?
Drew F. Lawrence
Thank you for listening to this special episode of Fire Watch. Thank you to my colleague Konstantin, and to our executive producers – Zach Fryer-Biggs and Jared Keller. If you enjoyed this episode, give us a rating and subscribe so you don’t miss part two of our look inside Navy boot camp coming next month. And as always, thanks for listening.